All the people who have commented on this issue seem to be men. I wonder if women have had the same kind of experience while riding trains in Tokyo (or Japan). It would be interesting to hear their stories and points of view.
All too familiar of a story. I personally hate bringing the topic up, though not that I make an effort to, as it’s almost always waved away, or excused away for a wide variety of silly reasons. People will contort themselves to provide some explanation beyond the obvious.
I feel I’ve mostly made peace with it, every now and then when the universe is giving me a tough day though it will get a lot more attention from me than I’d normally like to give it.
Most days I don’t notice it but as you described, there are those individuals who will rush onto the train at some stop, get half way to sitting down and notice that it’s a foreigner sitting next to them before they set back up and decide to wander off somewhere else, or just stand.
This is interesting because as a recent transplant, I don’t experience this at all.
As white, 193cm tall and tattooed, I’m a prime candidate to be treated as an oddity.
On trains, I experience people so absorbed in their phones they have no issue sitting beside me. Hell, I’m not sure they register anything apart from when it’s their stop.
To the extent anyone has engaged with me, it’s usually elderly ladies smile and nodding. Make of that what you will.
I must say I don't notice much myself, but I guess different people have different experiences, or maybe I'm just dumb. Being black like Baye, for instance, may make things harder.
I think the recent mass influx of tourists into Japan has made the issue partly go away because now in places like Tokyo it seems that just about every carriage has a few gaijin in them so Japanese passengers are now accustomed to gaijin. I mean I'm sure the children still sometimes stare but I don't think Japanese are as scared about what will happen to them if they sit next to a foreigner so much because they've seen hundreds of (mostly well behaved) foreigners on the trains and buses.
Now go somewhere more remote like Izumo and that's not so true. But then the buses and trains aren't so packed so it's impossible to tell if the passengers are giving you space because (typically) there's only half a dozen passengers and perhaps 50 seats
Key to recognize the xenophobia that haunts the Japanese; it’s akin to institutionalized racism. No one consciously endorses it: it’s enough to recognize a difference to create a discriminatory environment.
You’re different. This is probably why you are here. We represent a world the Japanese would not otherwise choose to enter, not out of fear but more due to discomfort, unfamiliarity with how different our world is, or is thought to be.
Think of yourself as a much needed portal between their world and yours. Of course the Japanese know their world isn’t like anywhere else—they pride themselves on the distinction. Getting children to not see non-Japanese, us, as intrinsically different is the challenge we’re here to address. It’s a function more valuable to the Japanese than any service we can provide. They know their reluctance is ‘on them,’ and they compensate but they know that only their children are sufficiently unadulterated to be educated without conscious awareness of the us/them distinction. And often we’re too late as this is implanted so early on.
Great story, well told and sweet ending. I’m wondering if the option of giving up your seat to the mother, so she could sit with her child, ever came into play. I occasionally do that, and occasionally think I should but don’t, because I’m tired or lazy or feeling like I already did my part that day, or whatever. But I believe that the times a foreigner does something like that, it chips away a small speck of the attitude rock that causes the empty seat problem in the first place. Japanese people think that a good Japanese person should give up their seat in such cases, though most of the time they don’t do so. It’s not on us to change the bad attitudes, but seeing a non-Japanese exhibiting the Japanese version of “we are all in this together” behavior might help break through some of the unconscious prejudices.
@Carl Kay, there were two seats open. The mother sat in the seat closest to me and directed her daughter to sit in the seat on the other side of her (when she refused to sit beside me). No one was standing, so there was no need to give up a seat for the mother or the daughter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
And yes, I too feel that I'm a representative of all that is foreign in their minds and that my behavior will reflect well or poorly on all non-Japanese, same as I did on the subway back in NYC when it came to the ignorant majority who viewed me as representative of blackness. Seems there's no escape from that mentality.
And while I hate to do anything motivated by the idea that it might give anyone with such limited, small-minded ideas about me any comfort, like yourself, despite myself, I do sometimes. Sadly, it's the path of least resistance (a path paved by the power structure). Syouganai jyan
This is the oddest phenomenon, and I have never figured out the reason for it. I am a big guy, just shy of two meters, and very clearly not Japanese, and this never happens to me. I know people it happens to constantly, but I have never really experienced it myself. I have had countless other instances that can only be classed as xenophobia, like women literally having jump scares when they see me in a store, and having people just flat out refuse to serve me in an establishment, so it isn't like I blend in or anything. But in almost 15 years of coming to Japan, and over a year of living here, I've never noticed anyone having any hesitancy to sit next to me on a train, and I have certainly never found myself with an empty seat next to me on a crowded train.
There has to be some component in addition to just being foreign, because while I am quite aware of it being something many people get very annoyed by, I have noticed that there are some people, it just doesn't happen to. While some people it seems to be almost the default reaction to them on the train, and I can't figure out the pattern. I've heard Indian, German, American and even Malaysia people complain about it, and I just haven't been able to spot the difference in who it happens to, and who it doesn't.
I didn't have much of a problem in my 25 years there, starting in 1991. And I didn't overthink it. If you want to stand instead of sit, fine. More room for me, but it was rare.
One morning three obasans sat in the four-seat facing seats on my train. After the 30 minute ride into Tokyo, I was about to get off when the woman next to me smiled and fixed my suit collar that a sleepy me had been careless about. She didn't want me to be embarrassed.
I gradually moved farther from the city every few years The farther I moved, the more friendly people were. Trains, subways and busses in the US are filled with people I wish wouldn't get near me. :)
I’m in Osaka at the moment, haven’t noticed this on trains but had exactly this happen in Seoul. The boy started to cry at the idea he’d have to sit there.
Personally, I don’t find it an issue. And it’s certainly not racist. That’s the persons interpretation of the situation - not a fact. They have no way of knowing what others are thinking.
I find myself doing the same, when I’m on the train. I can’t be arsed dealing with the context, and the possible misunderstandings. Most Japanese will automatically adjust themselves to the environment, so you know that when you sit down next to them. Will the gaijin do that? Not sure. Can I be arsed to find out. No, just as easy to stand and mind my own business and not be hassled by others. It’s just people wanting to go about their lives with minimum of fuss, not racism. Racism reflects the persons own racist interpretation.
@Gary Interesting perspective, but just to be clear—I never mentioned racism in my article. You’re attacking a position I never asserted. My focus was simply on the experience itself, not assigning motivations to anyone’s behavior. But thanks for being arsed enough to leave a comment (I hope I used arsed right…first time)
Opposite happens too: when close to gaijin, especially in permissive environments, like a club or cafe, Japanese seem to break ice more readily with gaijin than with their own. It’s a cheat code of sorts, as some feel that gaijin won’t be as constrained by societal norms of Japan that can be very stiff at times.
Flirting with Japanese while being gaijin is a fantastic experience. ♥️
Good grief. Japanese closed of their entire country for three hundred years to foreigners. Surely this aspect of the Japanese should be understand in this broader historical construct than this very common aspect of being gaijin. Perhaps nobody reads books anymore.
Fascinating! I’ve never been to Japan so I’ve never experienced this phenomenon, nor have I ever heard of it before. On a much different note, but still associated with being a foreigner in another country, I remember sitting on a subway train in Rome many years ago, wearing my New Balance sneakers (with the big NB logo on their sides) and having dozens of people stare at my feet. I realized that 1- most Italians wear shoes everywhere and not sneakers, and 2- NOBODY I saw in Italy wearing sneakers wore New Balance. I guess I (and my sneakers) were just just an anomaly that the natives were just overwhelmed.
Yes, I've never seen New Balance in Italy. Back in the late 70s-eary 80s it was Adidas vs Puma, then I guess Nike. I guess things have changed now and many youngsters wear snickers.
It's there, and it's not good when it happens. This said, at the risk of being considered one of those people who are always looking for excuses, I'd say there are also other factors at play.
The Japanese play this "game" among themselves too. For example, I've noticed that when a woman gets on the train, if there are two vacant seats, one between two men and another one between to ladies, she chooses the latter one. People also tend to avoid sitting next to big or fat passengers.
This is interesting because as a recent transplant, I don’t experience this at all.
As white, 193cm tall and tattooed, I’m a prime candidate to be treated as an oddity.
On trains, I experience people so absorbed in their phones they have no issue sitting beside me. Hell, I’m not sure they register anything apart from when it’s their stop.
To the extent anyone has engaged with me, it’s usually elderly ladies smile and nodding. Make of that what you will.
All the people who have commented on this issue seem to be men. I wonder if women have had the same kind of experience while riding trains in Tokyo (or Japan). It would be interesting to hear their stories and points of view.
All too familiar of a story. I personally hate bringing the topic up, though not that I make an effort to, as it’s almost always waved away, or excused away for a wide variety of silly reasons. People will contort themselves to provide some explanation beyond the obvious.
I feel I’ve mostly made peace with it, every now and then when the universe is giving me a tough day though it will get a lot more attention from me than I’d normally like to give it.
Most days I don’t notice it but as you described, there are those individuals who will rush onto the train at some stop, get half way to sitting down and notice that it’s a foreigner sitting next to them before they set back up and decide to wander off somewhere else, or just stand.
This is interesting because as a recent transplant, I don’t experience this at all.
As white, 193cm tall and tattooed, I’m a prime candidate to be treated as an oddity.
On trains, I experience people so absorbed in their phones they have no issue sitting beside me. Hell, I’m not sure they register anything apart from when it’s their stop.
To the extent anyone has engaged with me, it’s usually elderly ladies smile and nodding. Make of that what you will.
I must say I don't notice much myself, but I guess different people have different experiences, or maybe I'm just dumb. Being black like Baye, for instance, may make things harder.
It was an interesting read, totally different perspective.
I think the recent mass influx of tourists into Japan has made the issue partly go away because now in places like Tokyo it seems that just about every carriage has a few gaijin in them so Japanese passengers are now accustomed to gaijin. I mean I'm sure the children still sometimes stare but I don't think Japanese are as scared about what will happen to them if they sit next to a foreigner so much because they've seen hundreds of (mostly well behaved) foreigners on the trains and buses.
Now go somewhere more remote like Izumo and that's not so true. But then the buses and trains aren't so packed so it's impossible to tell if the passengers are giving you space because (typically) there's only half a dozen passengers and perhaps 50 seats
I’m eating my words! I’m on the JY line right now, standing room only and the seat beside me sat empty for 4 stops. A phone zombie finally filled it.
Great answer, Francis.
Key to recognize the xenophobia that haunts the Japanese; it’s akin to institutionalized racism. No one consciously endorses it: it’s enough to recognize a difference to create a discriminatory environment.
You’re different. This is probably why you are here. We represent a world the Japanese would not otherwise choose to enter, not out of fear but more due to discomfort, unfamiliarity with how different our world is, or is thought to be.
Think of yourself as a much needed portal between their world and yours. Of course the Japanese know their world isn’t like anywhere else—they pride themselves on the distinction. Getting children to not see non-Japanese, us, as intrinsically different is the challenge we’re here to address. It’s a function more valuable to the Japanese than any service we can provide. They know their reluctance is ‘on them,’ and they compensate but they know that only their children are sufficiently unadulterated to be educated without conscious awareness of the us/them distinction. And often we’re too late as this is implanted so early on.
Great story, well told and sweet ending. I’m wondering if the option of giving up your seat to the mother, so she could sit with her child, ever came into play. I occasionally do that, and occasionally think I should but don’t, because I’m tired or lazy or feeling like I already did my part that day, or whatever. But I believe that the times a foreigner does something like that, it chips away a small speck of the attitude rock that causes the empty seat problem in the first place. Japanese people think that a good Japanese person should give up their seat in such cases, though most of the time they don’t do so. It’s not on us to change the bad attitudes, but seeing a non-Japanese exhibiting the Japanese version of “we are all in this together” behavior might help break through some of the unconscious prejudices.
@Carl Kay, there were two seats open. The mother sat in the seat closest to me and directed her daughter to sit in the seat on the other side of her (when she refused to sit beside me). No one was standing, so there was no need to give up a seat for the mother or the daughter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
And yes, I too feel that I'm a representative of all that is foreign in their minds and that my behavior will reflect well or poorly on all non-Japanese, same as I did on the subway back in NYC when it came to the ignorant majority who viewed me as representative of blackness. Seems there's no escape from that mentality.
And while I hate to do anything motivated by the idea that it might give anyone with such limited, small-minded ideas about me any comfort, like yourself, despite myself, I do sometimes. Sadly, it's the path of least resistance (a path paved by the power structure). Syouganai jyan
Thank you very much, Carl. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Baye
Thanks for clarifying/sorry if I misunderstood.
Carl
It's primarily driven by fear of potential embarrassment, like what if the gaijin suddenly starts chatting in English? Don't overthink it
This is the oddest phenomenon, and I have never figured out the reason for it. I am a big guy, just shy of two meters, and very clearly not Japanese, and this never happens to me. I know people it happens to constantly, but I have never really experienced it myself. I have had countless other instances that can only be classed as xenophobia, like women literally having jump scares when they see me in a store, and having people just flat out refuse to serve me in an establishment, so it isn't like I blend in or anything. But in almost 15 years of coming to Japan, and over a year of living here, I've never noticed anyone having any hesitancy to sit next to me on a train, and I have certainly never found myself with an empty seat next to me on a crowded train.
There has to be some component in addition to just being foreign, because while I am quite aware of it being something many people get very annoyed by, I have noticed that there are some people, it just doesn't happen to. While some people it seems to be almost the default reaction to them on the train, and I can't figure out the pattern. I've heard Indian, German, American and even Malaysia people complain about it, and I just haven't been able to spot the difference in who it happens to, and who it doesn't.
I didn't have much of a problem in my 25 years there, starting in 1991. And I didn't overthink it. If you want to stand instead of sit, fine. More room for me, but it was rare.
One morning three obasans sat in the four-seat facing seats on my train. After the 30 minute ride into Tokyo, I was about to get off when the woman next to me smiled and fixed my suit collar that a sleepy me had been careless about. She didn't want me to be embarrassed.
I gradually moved farther from the city every few years The farther I moved, the more friendly people were. Trains, subways and busses in the US are filled with people I wish wouldn't get near me. :)
I’m in Osaka at the moment, haven’t noticed this on trains but had exactly this happen in Seoul. The boy started to cry at the idea he’d have to sit there.
Yes, I'm told the Koreans leg behind the Japanese in this respect.
Personally, I don’t find it an issue. And it’s certainly not racist. That’s the persons interpretation of the situation - not a fact. They have no way of knowing what others are thinking.
I find myself doing the same, when I’m on the train. I can’t be arsed dealing with the context, and the possible misunderstandings. Most Japanese will automatically adjust themselves to the environment, so you know that when you sit down next to them. Will the gaijin do that? Not sure. Can I be arsed to find out. No, just as easy to stand and mind my own business and not be hassled by others. It’s just people wanting to go about their lives with minimum of fuss, not racism. Racism reflects the persons own racist interpretation.
@Gary Interesting perspective, but just to be clear—I never mentioned racism in my article. You’re attacking a position I never asserted. My focus was simply on the experience itself, not assigning motivations to anyone’s behavior. But thanks for being arsed enough to leave a comment (I hope I used arsed right…first time)
You are welcome 🙂
It happens still and it’s cool, in my book.
Opposite happens too: when close to gaijin, especially in permissive environments, like a club or cafe, Japanese seem to break ice more readily with gaijin than with their own. It’s a cheat code of sorts, as some feel that gaijin won’t be as constrained by societal norms of Japan that can be very stiff at times.
Flirting with Japanese while being gaijin is a fantastic experience. ♥️
Good grief. Japanese closed of their entire country for three hundred years to foreigners. Surely this aspect of the Japanese should be understand in this broader historical construct than this very common aspect of being gaijin. Perhaps nobody reads books anymore.
Fascinating! I’ve never been to Japan so I’ve never experienced this phenomenon, nor have I ever heard of it before. On a much different note, but still associated with being a foreigner in another country, I remember sitting on a subway train in Rome many years ago, wearing my New Balance sneakers (with the big NB logo on their sides) and having dozens of people stare at my feet. I realized that 1- most Italians wear shoes everywhere and not sneakers, and 2- NOBODY I saw in Italy wearing sneakers wore New Balance. I guess I (and my sneakers) were just just an anomaly that the natives were just overwhelmed.
Yes, I've never seen New Balance in Italy. Back in the late 70s-eary 80s it was Adidas vs Puma, then I guess Nike. I guess things have changed now and many youngsters wear snickers.
Honestly I don’t see this phenomenon any more. Will pay attention…
It's there, and it's not good when it happens. This said, at the risk of being considered one of those people who are always looking for excuses, I'd say there are also other factors at play.
The Japanese play this "game" among themselves too. For example, I've noticed that when a woman gets on the train, if there are two vacant seats, one between two men and another one between to ladies, she chooses the latter one. People also tend to avoid sitting next to big or fat passengers.
Yes. And I'll even note that at least sometimes ladies will sit next to foreign ladies rather than Japanese men.
I know I would!
This is interesting because as a recent transplant, I don’t experience this at all.
As white, 193cm tall and tattooed, I’m a prime candidate to be treated as an oddity.
On trains, I experience people so absorbed in their phones they have no issue sitting beside me. Hell, I’m not sure they register anything apart from when it’s their stop.
To the extent anyone has engaged with me, it’s usually elderly ladies smile and nodding. Make of that what you will.